In an interview for The Rest Is Entertainment podcast, hosted by Richard Osman and Marina Hyde, outgoing BBC Director-General Tim Davie argues that the BBC remains a vital public-service institution in a media landscape transformed by global streamers, political pressure and declining trust.

He also shared his thoughts on the licence fee model, and the funding of the BBC World Service.

Responding to a question about whether the scale of investment from global streamers could mean the BBC no longer exists in ten years’ time, and about the biggest challenges facing the corporation as television continues to evolve over the next decade, Davie said: “I think sometimes you know the BBC’s thought it’s in jeopardy historically and being contentious about it you’re not really in jeopardy. I mean the DG may resign or something big might happen but if you’ve got two out of four TV channels you have to be doing a pretty poor job not to get an audience and I think what I’ve tried to do in my tenure is say: let’s not worry too much about that – let’s really worry about the value and your point which is this is now infinite choice, I mean I’ve got probably more computing power in my car than the whole of Croydon had when I was growing up and some.”

“So I think in that environment you then say, it goes to the heart of the question again, what are you doing differently? Now to your point it is existential. I don’t think the BBC’s got a right to exist in that way. It has to absolutely deliver value to every household. The exam question for me is not whether the BBC exists actually in the next phase. It is whether it is a market failure, forgive the jargon, but a market failure BBC; almost a charity project on the side funded by general taxation or whatever it is where people don’t feel participative – as opposed to a funding model and currently 94 per cent of Brits are using this every month, 83 per cent I think the week I saw last. That’s pretty incredible and what it allows you to do is make the case for a universal funding mechanic where everyone feels connected and looking for value. That’s different to a market failure model. I rail against those people who say it can be just news. That’s not what we’re trying to build here.”

When quizzed on the licence fee model, Davie said: “We’re at a consultation phase, but we have set out a very clear preference which is and I would do this to the point about restarting where we’re at – I think there is a model which says: look, if we can deliver value for every household and really work at that, then everyone contributes fairly, and I think that is a model that’s worth fighting for. I don’t see it as something potentially trapped in the past. I actually think it could be something exciting for the future – quite enlightened. You don’t have to go exactly where the market is going currently. You have to make markets, and I think we can do that.”

Davie also admitted that he believed putting the BBC World Service costs on the licence fee was a mistake, noting: “I think it’s government. I think, look, you can cost – terrible words – but you can cost recover through a bit of appropriate advertising on the news channel, you know, in the right market. But honestly, if you’re going to be out there in Afghanistan, if you’re going to have the Persian service, this is not – we’re the best – I mean, I’m all for it. We built a £2 billion commercial arm, we’re making money wherever we can appropriately, but there’s not money in the news business in this way. And if you want to make money in the news business, you might just get out alive and make some by having a subscription business in the US, which we’re trying. But you’re not going to do the World Service without government funding. And do I think it was a mistake to put it on the BBC licence fee payer? Absolutely. It was.”

The full version of the episode is available on YouTube.

In a separate speech delivered to the Royal Television Society, Davie warned that “the BBC is strong but is on a knife edge,” as he outlined his proposals for how the BBC will continue to deliver in the new media landscape, “serving audiences without a whiff of institutional entitlement”.

“Firstly, decisively tackling disinformation and strengthening democracy. We want to provide media literacy training to every school child to develop critical thinking skills,” said Davie.

“We want to build local services, deploying cutting edge technologies to increase verification, as well as strengthening local journalism, expanding the Local Democracy Reporting Service and sending traffic to the sites of news partners. Deploying more resources to protect local democracy such as more Any Questions-style debates and hot seat interviews.”

“We want the World Service to be expanded. It is simply illogical for the UK not to double down on a world beating asset which is a proven source of competitive advantage. To be frank, I struggle to think of anyone who doesn’t nod along when I say the service is needed more than ever. But talk is cheap. We need action.”

“Now linked to this, we need to invest in our work to provide data security and trusted information in times of national crisis. I have been blessed to be in a few extraordinary meetings in this role, but I will never forget sitting in Kyiv with President Zelensky who talked about the value of the BBC’s trusted reporting. It was humbling.”

“Secondly, we want to take another leap to be a truly UK-wide organisation. The most distributive, participative BBC ever. Driving more value from across the whole UK, creatively and economically. Open to all.”

“This goes all the way from working with UK creators from every part of the UK to deploying more power and spend outside London. We want over half of all commissioners and senior management to be based outside the M25, soon plus over 60 per cent of all TV and Radio network spend, ensuring career paths do not necessitate a spell in W1A.”

“We will train 5,000 people a year in future creative skills and offer at least 1,000 people recognised apprenticeships or placements. Making significant investments in creative clusters, driving industry growth and creating more powerful content. Not only, for example, continuing to produce Casualty in Cardiff, but strengthening it by clearly setting it as a show in Wales.”

“Thirdly, the BBC must build scale and be open to new partnerships. We’ve got a good record list, I can see a few in the room where we’ve had amazing partners. Let’s face it, in a world where Netflix and Paramount are feeling the need to bulk up, we must act urgently to secure scale in our national interest.”

“Partnerships like Freeview have been critical, but we should go further and shuffle sacred cows out of the field. For example, I think it now makes sense to allow content on iPlayer from other PSBs like Channel 4 and more, and our own UKTV services.”

“Just for clarity, and to get some heart rates down, this would not mean ads in BBC branded content. And, for the record, I agree with the Channel 4 Chair: the BBC should not own Channel 4,” noted Davie.

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Tags: BBC, Licence fee, Tim Davie